www.cottageville.net

MR. ADDISON: Well, that’s — That was not what I was talking about. I was talking about if the town chose not to have a water and sewerage, do you know of any cases where a county could force their water and sewerage system on the town without there being some sort of health hazard or something of public concern, health concerns.
MR. SEABROOK: The only one I can think of and it was probably health related, back in the early 70’s Goose Creek sewer system was in pretty sorry shape and the Berkeley County Water and Sewer Authority was created and they took over the Goose Creek system, rehabed it and then sent the sewerage to the new treatment plant down on Red Bank Road.
MR. ADDISON: But that was a health problem?
MR. SEABROOK: That was — That was a health issue, as well as, I think, a financial issue because I’m saying what I think. I don’t know this for a fact but I think the fact was the Goose Creek system was in such bad shape that the town couldn’t afford to fix it.
They had broken pipes and lots of infiltration and the system was just in really bad shape but there was a federal grant involved to fix that system as well as to transmit the flow for the new Berkeley County Plant.
MR. ADDISON: Thank you.
MR. SEABROOK: Yes, ma’am.
MS. STRICKLAND: Mr. Seabrook, I’m Debbie Strickland.
Earlier you said that you felt like that grants were necessary to make this go and to your knowledge these grants that the town could apply for, is there a minimum population base that has to be in existence to apply for those grants?
MR. SEABROOK: Not to my knowledge.
Let me read something that I’ve got and this is just one program. This is the state revolving fund which is a — which is a loan program and the water rates are 25 percent lower than the sewer rates that I’m gonna quote to you but the 3.25 percent standard rate applies to all borrowers with more than 10,000 population and all borrowers with median household income greater than the state, median household income of $37,082 regardless of size.
The small system rate is for a borrower population less than 10,000 and borrower median household less than the state, hardship rate, which is 1 percent, is population less than 10,000, system MHI less than state MHI – median household income – and a factor which figures in the cost of the — cost of — to the individual user after you factor in the cost to build it and operate and maintain it and that’s 1 percent.
Again, Awendaw. Awendaw, rural development required that they have a minimum of 237 users, which is pretty small. I think their population is actually about 1100 people but they had to have 237 customers.
Now, all of these agencies are going to look and see. A hundred people get together and say we’re in this town and we want a $10 million water system. If the economics don’t work, then they’re not gonna lend or grant the money. So there has to be an economic analysis in there, too, but I think for small towns these, these grant and low-income loan programs are pretty much necessary unless you could find a bank that would lend you money at 3 percent, which I doubt you could find right now.
Short answer is it’s got to be economically feasible but I don’t know that there’s a lower limit. It would be tied to the number of people and the size of the unit, of the system.
MS. STRICKLAND: Okay, because I know they told us in several meetings before that a lot of grants they couldn’t apply for when you had less than a thousand people in the town and I didn’t know if this would apply to that same type of situation.
MR. SEABROOK: I’m not aware of — There’s lots of grants out there and that may have been the requirements for a particular grant program but, as I say, well, I, I gave you the Awendaw numbers.
MS. STRICKLAND: Okay. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: I got one question.
MR. SEABROOK: Yes, sir.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: All right.
You say, I mean, there has to be — It has to be feasible economically both ways, you know. The town, it’s gonna have to be — to be able to afford it and the town has to show an economic value for the loan.
MR. SEABROOK: Right.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: Okay.
I know you don’t — You probably may not know but the infrastructure, the main infrastructure that would come in, of course, you know, a site would have to be picked out, land purchased, everything, but what happens if only the infrastructure comes down through the main street of Cottageville? I mean if it’s not an economic value then it’s not gonna happen, correct? Because if you don’t have enough customers to fill that -
MR. SEABROOK: Well, that would be part of the — I’m gone use rural development or Rural Utility Services as an example. That would be part of the preliminary engineering report that would show to them that there is enough capability to generate the funds necessary to repa the loan so if, if the stretch of Highway 17A is not capable, then you may have to expand it to where you get enough people that it would be capable of paying back the loan or you could back and do it in phases, say we do — And I’m just pulling things out of thin air now but we, we put in a well and two miles of pipe or we, we put in a well and not necessarily run it down 17A but go into some areas where there are enough houses to make it work.
They’re not gonna lend you the money unless they’re convinced that the town is capable of paying it back. It’s, it’s — That’s just a given and a requirement very early in the process, that that would have to be determined.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: Okay.
So, so in the first stage it would pass referendum, you know, to say if the town said, okay, we want it, had the majority vote and then you would have a study done to see if it would be done, correct?
MR. SEABROOK: Yes, sir.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: And then that study would include if one part didn’t come out then you would phase out and then it would go from there to make sure that there was enough economics to make sure that it did?
MR. SEABROOK: Yes, sir.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: I got you. I understand. I wanted to make sure I had that in my head correct.
MR. SEABROOK: Well, for instance, and then I’ll hush, in some of the areas I’ve worked in the past there may be a central area, pod of houses and businesses and there may be another pod, these are more rural areas than in the town. It might be half a mile or a mile away. Well, these people want the water, too, but to run the line from here to there for the number of people that would be added to the pot as far as paying back, it didn’t make sense so they weren’t included in the project and that’s not to say, going back to the Bulls Bay situation, that maybe five years later, their case, because there was some growth or, or some other reason, it did become feasible and so then they would do that in the next phase. They would do that section in the next phase.
So I think phasing is something that would have to be looked at seriously.
MR. PAULSBERG: I got — As I sit here and listen to come of the citizens — Danny Paulsberg.
Wouldn’t, if a study was done and if there’s new wells that have recently been put in and forget about the older wells that y’all have spoken about but if there’s new wells and I don’t know whether the new school is in the town limits or is it not?
MAYOR WHITE: Yes, it is.
MR. PAULSBERG: I mean people do not want — The school district likely may not want to run that water system. There’s some operation, operational costs associated with a water system. Typically they go down as the system gets a little bigger so a study would look at what’s the viability of taking that new well that the school put in and working with the school district and incorporating that potentially in to the town’s water system.
Someone mentioned a trailer park with a new well. If these are new wells that are DHEC, DHEC approved wells I think there’s a possibility that those could be linked in, could be part or become part of the town’s system and then the town would assume the operation of those but it’s not uncommon to have a system with wells that are scattered out across a populace area. You don’t have to have them all in one particular location but I mean is that something that you’ve seen in the past?
MR. SEABROOK: Particularly with school districts. School districts in Charleston County are — And, Danny, you know this as well as I do. They, they really don’t want to be operating those systems and I’ve done work for the school districts on water and, and waste water where they have either improved their systems and turned them over to a town or connected to a town system like you mentioned. Doing that in Hollywood right now with the — with the new school down there.
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: I hope this will be my last question.
What kind of revenue have you seen with, like say, a school or just the idea of a large business development coming down here? Their volume of water obviously is gonna be significantly higher than myself, unless I’m filling my swimming pool or something.
MR. SEABROOK: Right.
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: Do you see that the businesses bear the brunt of those — of, of the water costs? Is there, like, a scale? Is there a business rate various a residential rate?
MR. SEABROOK: Typically, typically these towns impose a different rate for commercial properties. Just as an example, the DHEC guidelines, for a brand new system DHEC says you will consider 100 gallons per day per person usage in a residence; you will — You will use 70 gallons per day per seat in a restaurant. If a school is an elementary school say it’s 10 gallons per day per student and staff. If there’s a — If there’s a gym and cafeteria, that goes to 25 gallons per day, I think. It may be 15 but 15 to 25 gallons per day per person. Business, 25 gallons per day per employee. So there are different numbers.
A small — A small business, I’ve got — I’ve got 10 to 12 people in my office; 4 of them are survey crews that work in the field. My water bill, water and sewer bill at the office is much less than my water and sewer bill at home because I have two teenagers. So businesses, office type businesses typically don’t use as much water as a residence. Restaurants and probably grocery stores, car washes, things like that would use a good bit more water than -
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: They’ll pay a little higher rate, per se, than a — than a -
MR. SEABROOK: Generally, generally -
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: I think the concern — My concern and probably the public’s concern is a bill we can’t pay. On a — On the individual issue we get what’s it cost to connect and then what’s gonna cost me every month and I think that’s a concern. It would be — And it would be my concern as well and I’m just curious, if we’re looking at larger — If the school is going to take part of that financial burden if they tap in, for example.
Again, with the business development down the road I’m curious as to exactly what kind of — you know, what kind of impact those would have reducing the residential bill because, as we’ve looked at the financials, you know, there’s lots of bills the town must pay.
MR. SEABROOK: Right.
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: And water could help pay some of those bills. I think that, that then you have the other, the bill that you’d have.
MR. SEABROOK: Let’s be careful.
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: Okay.
MR. SEABROOK: Some of these grants and loans, probably all of them would require that you set up a separate fund and it wouldn’t necessarily be funds that would be available for other uses.
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: Okay.
MR. SEABROOK: It must support the water and sewer system and there are some reserve funds that would be — have to be set up, a depreciation fund, a fund for emergencies and you’d have to — You don’t have to fund them all at one time but the first month that the bills go out, some proportion of those bill payments have to go in to these different pots because, again -
COUNCIL MEMBER EUTSLER: Just like any good business -
MR. SEABROOK: Right.
The government is interested in making sure that the loans are repaid.
COUNCIL MEMBER COOK: Are tap-in fees included when it comes through if a system is put in? Is — If somebody has to tap in to the system is that included in the grant? Would the customer have to pay that?
MR. SEABROOK: What I have seen is that some, some towns and agencies have given a, basically, a discounted rate for the tap fees initially. You sign up before December 1 your tap fee may be $300; if it’s after that it might be $500 – and, again, I’m just pulling numbers out of thin air – as an incentive for people to sign up because several of these grant and loan programs say before we actually give you the money you’ve got to have so many folks signed up.
The other part of it is, at least on rural development, is the town would have to establish a, a — an ordinance that if a main is in the road within so many feet of a particular property and water or sewer goes by, then there would be mandatory connection requirement. That’s rural development; that’s not necessarily everybody else. So, again, as part of the whole process you could look at these different grants and loans and, I would hope, pick and choose which one suits, suits your needs the best.
And, again, the mandatory connection ordinance is, is to ensure the government gets paid, paid back on the loans they make.
MR. RICO: In other words, they’re forcing it on you.
MR. SEABROOK: Under rural — Under rural development guidelines, that particular agency, and the town has the authority to set the distance, whether it’s a hundred feet or 500 feet or a thousand feet or whatever it is, they, they require a mandatory connection ordinance.
MR. RICO: Like I just said, they’re forcing it on you.
MR. SEABROOK: If, if you use the rural development funds, then that would be a requirement, yes, sir.
MR. ADDISON: Gone ask you a couple more questions.
MR. SEABROOK: Sure.
MR. ADDISON: You were talking about grants. Is it my understanding that these would have to be matching grants?
MR. SEABROOK: Not in all cases. Some of them would be.
MR. ADDISON: Okay.
MR. SEABROOK: Again, the Community Development Block Grant sometimes requires a local match of some portion. The Rural Development Grants do not require local match. The State Revolving Fund is a loan.
There are some other state grant programs. Some of them do, some of them don’t but, again, it would just be looking at the universe of what’s available and deciding which ones you would like to go after.
For instance, CDBG – Community Development Block Grants – I’m not familiar with, with ones that would bill as high as 50 50. Now, there may be some like that but usually it’s something like the, the grant is for 75 percent or 80 percent and then the local community matches 20 or 25 percent, some match like that.
MR. ADDISON: Okay.
Could I — Could I ask you one more thing?
MR. SEABROOK: Sure.
MR. ADDISON: You live in Mt. Pleasant?
MR. SEABROOK: I do, yes, sir.
MR. ADDISON: Could I ask you what your water bill and sewer bill?
MR. SEABROOK: Well, I, I — When the boys were at home my water and sewer bill was on the order of $80 a month. When they’re — When they’re not home it’s about $40 a month for water and sewerage.
MR. ADDISON: And you’re only — You’re only talking about water, right? You’re not talking sewer?
MR. SEABROOK: No, those bills are water and sewerage.
MR. ADDISON: No, but I’m, I’m talking about your bill; I’m talking about — Tonight you’re only talking about water.
MR. SEABROOK: No, either one. I’ll be glad to talk about either one.
MR. ADDISON: Okay, but most — Most of these costs and stuff you’re giving is just for water system, not . . .
MR. SEABROOK: Well, yeah, but this gentleman here was asking about the tank and wells and things like that.
The sewer, the sewer system is gonna depend on a site location, whether that site can accept treated affluent to be disposed on the ground.
Part of what we’d have to look at, although, is probably less of an opportunity than the land disposal is discharging to a surface water. That, that may be a little bit more difficult nut to crack.
The problem with land application, DHEC has guidelines that say you’ve got to have reasonable good soil, clays. You’ve got to have a reasonably good depth to the water table so that the treated affluent, when it trickles through the soil, would get treated more before it got into the water tank.
MR. ADDISON: So you’d have that or you’d have septic tank.
MR. SEABROOK: Not necessarily. The septic tank regulations have gotten much more stringent in recent years and I’ve — I won’t put a percentage on it but there are a lot of places that have septic tanks now that could not be approved today. Some of it comes from EPA; some of it comes from the fact that the state has gotten a little bit more attentive, I think, to septic tanks and what they do to the ground water as the state has grown.
We’re a rural state; people just put in septic tanks and they work fine most of the time if people clean them out and they put them in the — in the right kind of soil but there’re a number of them that have been put into soils that probably should not have happened 40 years ago and definitely wouldn’t get approved today.
MR. MICHAEL: Excuse me.
Like, say, you have a septic tank.
All right.
Most of your buildings, development and stuff, not what I was doing, sewer and water road work, most, 90 percent of the buildings was going in swampland. That’s why right today lot of septic tanks and stuff . . .
MR. SEABROOK: Won’t work.
MR. MICHAEL: Won’t work.
MR. SEABROOK: That’s right.
MR. MICHAEL: Then you gonna have to have sewer and water. So, see, they’re building up way back then, said swampland was more work, more work than highland. That’s what Westvaco was doing back in Goose Creek, Moncks Corner, some part of Charleston, Dorchester Road. All that was build up, nothing but swampland.
MR. SEABROOK: Well, in some of those areas, of course, those big Westvaco developments connected to sewer systems like the Summerville system or the Berkeley system once it was developed.
MR. MICHAEL: Just like Queens Grant, Ashborough East.
MR. SEABROOK: I’m thinking about Ashborough.
MR. MICHAEL: Yeah, Ashborough East, back over in there, all that nothing but swamp. That’s like new subdivision built right there where Walmart and everything was built, swamp.
MR. SEABROOK: Well, we did — We did the work for Summerville CPW when the CPW took the old Ashborough plant out of service and pumped the sewerage from that end of the town and that end of the county up to their plant on Old Orangeburg Road. Awhile ago.
MR. MICHAEL: And your last big subdivision on left-hand side right there, it took what? Five years before they built the first house in there? Or six?
Something like that.
MR. SEABROOK: Yes, sir.
MR. MICHAEL: Or could’ve been a little longer.
MR. SEABROOK: Well, these things take time -
MR. MICHAEL: Yeah, I understand that but, you know, I mean have to haul — get the drainage system then the sewer and all that came in later and they had to put in boxes just to lay water line in there, so bad.
MAYOR WHITE: Micky, thank you. I appreciate it, all information.
At this time I’d like -
MR. PAULSBERG: I don’t have anything to say unless I just — Micky and I worked together many years ago and I respect his opinion.
MAYOR WHITE: Okay.
At this time we’ll move on to public participation. I’d like for you to keep your comments to two minutes so maybe we can get out of here before 8:00 this evening.
The first name on the list is Buddy Ackerman.
MR. ACKERMAN: Ain’t what I say about the water system now but Ms. Mildred Thomas owns property down there. It was DHEC approved. I think there’s only one trailer house in there now, mobile home. All the rest of them been moved out but I’d like to know, God come before the flag did, why businesses can’t, can’t open our official business with prayer and we come from the Lord. Earth they come from and dust they’ll return. We’re not gone take anything with us when we leave here.
I come to ask, as a citizen in Cottageville all my life, if the people would be willing to give right of way that needs to be to drain our town like it needs to be drained. Some gonna have to take some trees down but the trees can be removed off your property. The dirt that comes out the ditch be moved out the property. It has to be where a backhoe can get in there and dig it.
When they put the pipe in the highway out here I talked to the engineers and I told them, I said, I’m a little country boy and I don’t have all the education y’all have but I got sense enough to know water won’t run uphill; if you come down here and look behind my house in this ditch, there’s a foot and a half water that this pipe ain’t low enough to drain.